Thursday, May 20, 2010

Where's the Justice?

The THIRD judge has now ruled that Bush/Cheney administration clearly broke the law with their wiretapping program.

So...the law calls for a penalty of five years in prison and a $10,000 fine fore EACH offense (and it appears there were hundreds of thousands of offenses...possibly millions.

Where's the trial for the "educated" people who knowingly broke the law? Is Justice going to return to America or is the Obama Justice Dept. just a pawn of the Obama White House.

What happened to the change we all voted for? When are we going to demand the change occur or call for the impeachment of the current president if he refuses to change course and continues to cover up the Bush administration crimes?


Star Womanspirit said...

Here's the source

Sorry...I am obviously juggling too much today...

Tom White said...

Perhaps if you take some of the emotional hype out of the mix and look at what really transpired you would be a little less confused (and angry).

In 2006, a Federal Judge in Detroit, Anna Taylor, ruled the wiretaps illegal. Taylor, however, is a far left activist judge who was once caught trying to take a case about racial preferences at U of Michigan away from a judge she thought might rule against racial preferences. Even a number of leftists were embarrassed by her ruling on the wiretaps.

Next, the case was appealed before a 3 judge panel in San Francisco. The majority decision (2 of the judges) said that the plaintiffs in the case failed to prove they were wiretapped. A third dissented, but his report does not claim they proved they were tapped.

So, we have one judge who was overruled by the appeals court, meaning she erred in her decision. The fact that there was a lone dissenting judge does not mean two judges found a violation. It simply means that by rule of law, the appeals process concluded the plaintiffs had no grounds to bring suit.

I would hope that you would agree that there was no proof these Islamic plaintiffs were wiretapped. Even their attorney does not say otherwise. You are demanding that the Bush Administration follow the law, yet you somehow think it is unjust that the same legal system you want to enforce laws ruled against the plaintiffs, who did not have standing. This is first year law stuff, and the first judge screwed up royally.

Now, for the more recent ruling by Judge Walker, he did indeed rule the wiretaps illegal. However:

"Judge Walker limited liability in the case to the government as an institution, rejecting the lawsuit’s effort to hold Robert S. Mueller III, the F.B.I. director, personally liable."

However, this will likely be appealed because there was, again, no proof of wiretap, only an admission that they were "under surveillance" by an FBI agent. And this last judge did not rule on the Government's arguments. Lots of room to overturn here.

But if you want Obama to turn over everything they have in hopes of putting Bush in jail, that will never happen. Because Obama has admitted he has done the same thing.

"But since Mr. Obama took office, the N.S.A. has sometimes violated the limits imposed on spying on Americans by the new FISA law. The administration has acknowledged the lapses but said they had been corrected."

Yea, he done it but he's not doing it anymore. Well, neither is Bush. That has been corrected.

Most of the things that were considered illegal were made legal in a 2006 law passed by Congress, and Senator Obama voted for it.

My take on this is that we need VERY stiff penalties if the government uses information in any wiretap not terrorism related. If a phone call comes in from Osama to an American, you would have the government go hunt down a judge and get a warrant. I promise you the call would be long over by then.

However, no warrant is needed now because of the law Obama voted for in 2006.

I don't want the government to listen in on my private conversations, but if an overseas KNOWN terrorist called me, I would hope they make an exception.

I really get the feeling you want some sort of revenge here, and not justice.

Star Womanspirit said...

I'll stay connected to my emotions thank you...BTW, you think there's a more appropriate response to this than anger?

IF you researched the issue you would realize that our system was set up to track "KNOWN" terrorists (heck even "suspected" terrorists) without violating the civil liberties and breaking the law to gather wholesale information on hundreds of thousands (and I am being conservative with this figure) of Americans who had done nothing wrong.

So if you think it is more appropriate to dance in the streets (or maintain an apathetic demeanor) when powerful, wealthy people disregard the law and thinking they will face no consequences you go right ahead. For me, that is not an appropriate reaction.

Justice is NOT revenge. IF folks can harm millions of people and face no consequences they will continue to inflict harm to make profits. So Justice is a wise, good thing.

I'm not the "vengeful" type it's one reason I don't believe in capital punishment. But I have to wonder if you aren't the vengeful type and you are projecting this off on me....maybe that's why you think I want revenge and not justice.